As part of our ongoing series of Interviews with Seduction Masters, we talk to Stephen Nash (aka “PlayboyLA” from Neil Strauss’ book The Game) who spills the beans about the infamous “Project Hollywood” and talks about why he doesn’t recommend ’sarging’ while giving away his top two techniques on picking up women.

Stephen has recently released an audio and ebook set called The Natural Art of Pick-Up.

Derek Rake: Stephen, you’re well known as the character “Playboy” from Neil Strauss’ expose of the seduction community, “The Game”. How did you end up joining up Mystery & Co at Project Hollywood?

Well, I had taken a Real Social Dynamics (RSD) workshop in Nov 2003, and impressed Tyler and Papa.  Also, I got to meet Mystery as he was helping on the program.  Towards the end of the final night, Nick (Papa) sat me down and pitched the whole idea to me:

“Move to LA, move in with me, Mystery and Style, and live with the greatest pick-up artists in the world.  We’ll be pulling chicks left and right, partying, the house is awesome – it’s Dean Martin’s old mansion – we’ll be going to the hottest clubs and events in LA…it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity”

I asked him if I could sleep on it, and the next day I realized I HAD to do this.  It was truly a unique opportunity – and contrary to popular belief – I don’t regret it.  I called him the next day and agreed to sign-on as the 4th member of the house (Herbal signed on a few days later).

I knew that the house would become PU central, and that cool guys like 26 (aka Extramask in “The Game”) and Sickboy would be around a lot.  I also knew that I would REGRET not doing it later on.  After 9/11 – and witnessing it live in NYC – I decided that it was not acceptable to pass up unique, interesting and possibly insane opportunities!  So, I went for it.

In fact, my mom and step-dad had to refinance their cars just to help me with the enormous security deposit.  I was barely able to wing it financially, and scraped by while I was out there.

Derek Rake: Cool. Now tell us a story from Project Hollywood that has not been shared before.

Ha!  The one I really like was when we were all involved in the Double Your Dating Mastery Program.  RSD at the time would gather up 15-20 or so guys each night to take out and show the ropes live, in the field.  One evening, we were at the house preparing to leave for the Strip, when Mystery showed up with nothing to do.

We invited Mystery to join us, and he gladly obliged since he’s always up to play the game.  But, as a challenge to himself, he went out in a lame pair of jeans, grey t-shirt, and a pair of white New Balance tennis shoes! 

Derek Rake: Let me get this straight. So Mystery went out with no peacocking at all?

Yes, Rake - no peacocking at all.  But you know what?  He was still GREAT.  That was a fun night.

I can also add that The One (Cameron Teone) and I pulled girls back to the mansion on four consecutive nights…that was also pretty fun.

Derek Rake: Sounds like a riot! Who is the one person who is the MOST influential in shaping you up as a dating expert? He or she could be from the community, or not.

Well, the author David Deida makes a helluva lot of sense to me. 

Derek Rake: Yeah, I am a fan of David Deida as well. I think “The Way of the Superior Man” is a must read for all the guys out there who want to improve themselves. I cannot recommend it too highly.

Yeah man. Deida’s work and writing focus a lot on the spiritual nature of men and women in relationship.  It’s very interesting, and practical.

Derek Rake: OK. Who else?

I also surround myself with guys who are naturally successful with women and who are in long-term relationships, since that’s what I always wanted, and have now – 2 years running.  So, the kudos there goes to my friend Tom who is incredibly insightful into the female psyche and always willing to offer his thoughts and ideas on specific scenarios.

Derek Rake: Can you share with us the most important thing that you learned from him?

One takeaway I can offer – very often us guys feel we need to DO something about our women, relationships, or even a woman we are dating.  Less is more, do nothing – he taught me.  Let them come to you.

Very empowering.

Derek Rake: Now let me ask about your company, Cutting Edge Image Consulting. What does your company do?

Well, after Project Hollywood, I returned to New York and decompressed for a few months.  That was such an overwhelming experience, that I needed some time just to wash my brain a bit.  But, Mike (Sickboy) and I sat down over dinner one night and realized that we had something very solid to offer the community.

Basically, we were sick of routines, and preferred a more natural style of attracting women.  So, we abandoned scripts and gimmicks and instead focused on teacing social skills.  Though I do teach specific things to say, I only offer them as training wheels.  Guys leave my seminars, 1-on-1’s and products with SKILL that they can apply in their lives.  To me, this is what helps a guy – not a toolbox of training wheels.

We also wanted to offer help to guys in developing a strong sense of personal style and in developing their lifestyle.  Lifestyle is so key, as if done smartly, a guy need never go “sarging” again. 

Derek Rake: Interesting. So you’re advocating “not” to sarge in order to get women?

Exactly. In fact, if you have to sarge to meet women, you’re doing this wrong. 

(It is) far better to spend your time developing yourself, doing interesting things, and expanding your world view, than to be out in clubs/bars picking-up girls.  Trust me, if you live in a way that is healthy and balanced, using some of the ideas I offer, you’ll have no problems meeting women.

CEIC therefore is the company that stresses these three aspects when working with a guy.  It’s not enough to merely teach social skills, without crafting a look and lifestyle that will support them. 

Derek Rake: Tell us more about your program, The Natural Art of the Pick-Up.

The Natural Art of the Pick-Up is my newest program, which I am very excited about.  It contains over 8 hours of audio and an accompanying ebook.  Once you purchase it, you download it and are listening to my voice right away.  The program is my magnum opus of every social skill I’ve ever known to meet and attract women.  It’s designed to teach you the structure of a smooth and natural pick-up, and the skills within each part of the structure. 

It’s EASY, most guys say.  I’ve really simplified the science and math here, and made meeting women EASY and SIMPLE.  That was my goal.  The nice result for guys is that they don’t have to become a weird “PUA”, but rather just grow into a more attractive version of themselves.  VERY cool stuff!

Derek Rake: Is this a “Natural Game” product? How different is it from other dating products out there?

(The product is) a way for me to walk you through the learning curve to finding your own natural style of meeting and attracting women.  I hand you all the social skills, structure, and philosophy you need to be effortlessly meeting women ASAP.  There are exercises, and even an ongoing support forum for when you bounce up against your sticking-points…we’ll get you through them quickly, if you’re willing to take some action.

As far as how it differs from other products…you know, I’m not really sure as I’ve never listened to/watched/read any of them.  I do know that there is a lot of nonsense out there, and that there are very few of us who are truly good at this art. 

Nowadays, it is so easy for guys to operate a PUA business from their house – and consequently, they are not vetted.  The question I continue to ask is – WHO ARE THESE GUYS?  You know?

Derek Rake: Very true.  Anyone can pass off as a “pickup guru” on the Internet nowadays.

Exactly.

(My system) is a clear, concise and coherent look at “pick-up” without the weirdness and with an edge.  No more Mr. Nice Guy – sure, but don’t become a creep either.

Derek Rake: I also remembered that you wrote an ebook on How To Get A Girlfriend.

That’s my primary ebook.  It drills down into the 7 essential skills for meeting the right woman for a relationship.  It does cover approaching, and social skills ad nauseum. 

If you’re a guy who wants to understand more deeply this 3-fold attack, this is the book for you.  You’ll be left with a strong clarity on what you need to do to start attracting women into relationships.  It’s an art.

Derek Rake: Apart from ebooks - do you also offer other programs? Say, audio?

Yes.  Natural Attraction is a 7-Day audio program which expands upon the ideas I set forth in How to Get a Girlfriend.  There are interactive worksessions, interviews, and a thorough breakdown of some of the best “attract” skills known in the community.  This is a take-home bootcamp designed to totally remake your style and image, while loading you up with techniques for getting girls.

Derek Rake: How about coaching?

Rake, glad you asked! 1-on-1 with Stephen Nash – this is where you and I sit down for 6 hours and break everything down – social skills, social life, social circle, lifestyle, personal look – and remake it all from the ground up. 

It’s an enthralling and intense 6 hours.  For the first 2 we go through your lifestyle and rebuild things from where you are, while tossing away A LOT that is distracting and discouraging you. 

The next 2 are all about social skills and meeting/attracting women.  I lead you through numerous exercises, and demonstrate each skill so that you leave with some sturdy tools to put to use right away.  Last, we go shopping and me and my team pull together new, more attractive and cool looks for you begin using in your life. 

This is a massive overhaul, and you leave the session with an ACTION plan.  And no, I don’t pull any punches.

Derek Rake: Stephen, you have consulted for thousands of clients over your 5 years of work in coaching. Could you share with us some of the success stories of your students?

Sure thing, man. Here are a few I think are useful.

Nick was a highly intelligent guy, with a fascinating career, and a variety of outside interests in the world.  Yet, he wouldn’t share any of it with anyone.  He saw himself as a “private” guy.  We worked to get him to change his definition of that, so that he could simply allow others into his truly fascinating world.  Now, he hosts piano concerts in his home, and meets women in lounges/bars all across the city – using the skill set I teach.  He represents the ideal blend of using lifestyle and “pick-up” to expand ones social circle, and to attract the right kinds of women.

Ishmael was a former PUA who simply could not keep a girl interested in him for longer than 10 minutes.  He had no ability to connect with women, and to do so intelligently.  After learning my structure, and the skills within that structure, he’s now got a girlfriend and has been with her for nearly a year.  Also, she’s VERY hot.  I won’t say her name, but she appears in magazines a few times/year. 

Stu is a lawyer who started listening to my podcasts about a year ago.  He hired me for a 1-on-1 to help him with meeting women.  We did an overhaul on his lifestyle, his “in field” skills and his look, and he’s now dating 2-3 women per week (last I heard) and was moving to Hawaii!  He’s my model student for merging lifestyle, social skills and personal style into a newly defined and attractive “image”.

Last, there’s Taylor.  Taylor is a young guy, right out of college, who was a total nerd and a virgin.  He and I worked together, and in particular, on his personal look/style.  My hunch was that he would feel differently about himself if we overhauled how he looked – one thing about younger guys – many can change their attitude and outlook rather quickly if you simply show them physically that they CAN BE attractive.  He’s now a DJ, and has an LTR…he’s my best rags-riches story by far.

Derek Rake: Let us sample your goods. Give us the ONE thing that a beginner MUST do in order to become better with women.

Easy. Start approaching women – RIGHT NOW. 

It is the best way to boost your self-confidence, change your mental reality, practice social skills, learn from experience and possibly get a date…and all in ONE ACTION. 

There is way more to this than approacing, but I’ve rarely met a guy who can really pass through the learning curve of truly finding and owning the power of choice in his life if he’s not willing to approach a woman.

It’s a rites-of-passage in my opinion, and I focus A LOT on it when working with guys and in my products.

Derek Rake: David DeAngelo has got his patented “cocky funny” concept. What’s the defining Stephen Nash pickup technique?

The first technique is what I call “The Teaser Opener” – a flashy, fun approach technique that I teach guys.  It’s very easy to execute and never comes off as scripted.  Also, it is highly fliratious and confident, and women really love it.

The second technique is called “Baiting” – the word I use here sounds a bit manipulative, but it truly is not.  This is the most empowering skill for men that I teach.  It’s where a man leads the conversation, naturally screening her, while she’s placed in the role of asking questions (seeking rapport). 

It’s basically learning the gift of gab that naturals do…well…naturally, but with the “PUA” edge of bringing her more and more into my world.

Derek Rake: Finally, your take on the community. Is it any better, or worse, than it was, say three years ago?

I’d have to say it has gotten worse, man. 

(The community is) so watered down with very mediocre coaches.  Most of these guys are good at marketing, but who really knows if they know what they are talking about?  My advice to guys – really do your research on who is marketing to you and trying to persuade you to purchase and participate in their products. 

There are very few that I’d recommend, most of the others are rewashing others’ techniques and or just offering very basic help.  Given this phenomenon, I think the new guy is likely more confused and less helped than he was 3 years ago. 

My advice is simple. Find a guy you feel you can trust, and whose approach appeals to you, and then go with him.  Buy all of his stuff (within reason).   Unsubscribe to the 25 newsletters you’re reading every day, and drill down into one guy’s teaching. 

The really good guys will get you to where you want to – they might all lead you down differing paths to your goal – but they’ll get you there.  And that’s exactly the point.

Stephen Nash’s “Natural Art of The Pick-Up” is now out. Click here for more details on this comprehensive audio and ebook set.

This is the third (and final) part of the interview with Derek Lamont of Online Pickup Secrets. The first two parts of the interview could be found here and here.

Derek Rake: You devoted an entire chapter in Online Pickup Secrets on The Second Message that a guy will send to a girl after the ‘approach’. I especially like the section on the 6 email blunders that guys make when they send that second message. What are the mistakes to avoid?

They generally cover the syndrome that most guys get when the successfully receive a response back from a beautiful woman.  They think, Oh my goodness!  She must be interested in me.  I need to start showing that I’m really interested in her!  While you must show interest in return - the right kind of interest of course, most men tend to overdo it.

There are generally 6 types of mistakes men do in this area.  I’ll cover one of them right now – as a bonus to DerekRake.com readers.

Some guys will do the whole “compliment her looks” thing. I mean, great, she replied to you. But you’re giving her way too much power by saying that you are physically attracted to her. 

At this point of the game, it’s overboard and you shouldn’t say anything too positive about her looks just yet. 

Women love the mystery, and it’s SO easy to convey mystery through text - so exploit this!  Don’t let her know what you FULLY think about her. Not yet, anyway.

Derek Rake: This is really similar to what I teach my students. Never ever comment on the looks of a gorgeous woman – she has heard it many, many times before. You’ll sound just like the other guys – who she has rejected many times also.

Exactly.

Derek Rake: Now about Instant Messaging (IM) game. You have covered this very extensively in Chapter 17 of the book – but could you give us the ‘skinny’ on how to be good at gaming women via IM?

Sure thing, Derek.

The IM game is really a lot of fun and this is where you can easily set up a phone conversation.  And I emphasize on the word EASILY.

When you’re running game on IM, remember that setting up the phone conversation is the goal here.  You need to open quickly, initiate compelling topics of conversation. You will need to build trust and rapport… and you must do ALL of this before initiating a call to action to start a phone conversation.

I will kid you not here. This really takes time.  Don’t believe anyone who try to sell you the ‘silver bullet’ to online attraction success.

The unfortunate fact is that most men rush the trust-building phase.  And like real life pickup, you have to look for online IOI’s or online indicators of interest. 

Derek Rake: What are the examples of ‘online’ IOIs?

This can range from several things - such as an increased willingness to talk with you, decreased intermission between messages, emotional indicators like “lol” and “haha” that she may convey, etc.  That’s really the overall gist of it.

Derek Rake: So you’re saying that after getting the IOIs, you will need to spend some time to build rapport. I can see lots of similarities with ‘offline’ game here.

Exactly, Derek.

However, too many men are just much too impatient and overlook this important rapport building phase.   Dude, I know it’s hard when you’re sitting there by yourself with her hot Facebook pictures in front of you. But that’s where all the weaker men fall into the trap. 

Derek Rake: Why did you write an entire chapter on ‘Phone Game’? Don’t you think that it is not relevant in a manual on online dating?

It’s actually extremely relevant.  The phone is a vital, essential, and necessary step if you ever want to actually MEET those girls that you have approached online.  And if you can get to this point and KNOW what you’re doing on the phone, setting up a first meet is so easy.

I honestly can’t even remember a time when I’ve talked to a girl on the phone and NOT successfully built any attraction.  It’s really the easiest way to close the deal and many men don’t realize it.

The tips that I tell you in this chapter will help you when talking to ANY girl on the phone – not just ones you meet online.  It’s really my secret weapon.

Derek Rake: How about non-dating websites? Social networking websites are all the rage right now. Are these any different from dating websites? I know we have talked a little about Facebook…but I want to know about social networking sites in general.

There are some obvious differences.  First of all, it’s obviously takes more effort to pick up a girl on Facebook than it is to pick up a girl on say… Plenty of Fish.  This is because many women on Facebook aren’t LOOKING to meet any guys,  but yet they get harassed by men all the time.

It can get pretty annoying - I mean, all those guys that are hitting on them are probably creeps who have no idea what they’re doing.

So yes, the approach is completely different.  You still need a GREAT profile, but the trust building and the rapport building on Facebook (or MySpace for that matter) is a totally different beast.

Derek Rake: Last question. If there is one thing that a guy can do to be good at online dating immediately, what would be it?

Fix the damn profile!

Too many guys out there have just the most ridiculous, creepy-looking pictures and they don’t bother getting ‘social proof’.  It doesn’t matter how good your first message is, if you don’t have the right pictures or the right content in your profile, it won’t even matter. 

A girl won’t even think about responding if you haven’t covered this portion of your online game. 

Derek Lamont is the author of Online Pickup Secrets – guaranteed to turn your computer into a seduction machine. If you have any questions which you would like to ask Derek Lamont, email me at derek@derekrake.com and I will pass them on to him.

If you haven’t heard of the October Man Sequence, it is this purportedly a deadly effective hypnosis-based sequence which was first talked about in “The Game” by Neil Strauss, written by this character called Twotimer in the book.

I am not a big fan really of the usage of hypnosis in seduction, but have found that if it is employed properly, it can be dangerously effective. It is good especially in the context of creating emotional bonding and getting the woman to submit to you. When combined with the methods contained within How To Seduce Out Of Your League, the results can be explosive.

The book is well written, and looks much better than the typical NLP product. It’s important to realize that the method could be entirely useless on its own without proper ‘foundations’ - sexual state of mind, creating rapport, congruency…

I would NOT recommend the October Man Sequence to those who would need to build on the foundational knowledge of seduction, and especially to those who are just starting out. But if you are an intermediate level seductionist then you might want to consider adding this piece of advanced ‘technology’ into your arsenal.

Here is the link - http://www.OctoberManSequence.com. Please use this knowledge responsibly if you will.

In his seminal ‘underground’ book on seduction “Real World Seduction“, Swinggcat described a technique called “push pull”.

In a nutshell, the technique is about the process of pushing the girl away and thus create the ’space’ to pull her back. The full details of this powerful technique are between the pages 55 and 66 in the book Real World Seduction, but if you’d like the skinny, try the Zen Seduction analogy.

Think of pushing and pulling in the terms of the Zen principle of balance, or “Yin and Yang “. The two perfectly complements each other, and the mere existence of one would essentially define the other.

Pushing is associating an action with pain , while Pulling is about pleasure .

Every time you ‘push’ a girl away, you create space to ‘pull’ her back to you. A few rounds of pushing and pulling would create an emotional roller coaster would create an amazing psychological effect on women. It will make them feel compelled to chase you due to the ‘illusion’ of suspense that you create and through the mixed signals that you send.

Powerful stuff indeed!

Push-Pull via “Intentional Undermining”

Now let’s take a look at some stuff which you can use almost immediately. One of the techniques which works on the principle of Push-Pull is called “Intentional Undermining “.

“Intentional Undermining”, said Swinggcat, “is the art of doing or saying one thing and then doing another thing to completely undermine the first thing.”

One example of this technique is what he called the “undermining compliment”. For example, when a girl kisses your neck, say “I really like it when you kiss my neck. It feels great. You are really good at this.” This is the “pull” part of push-pull.

Now here comes the “undermining” part where you “push” the girl. Say, “Well…actually there are three other girls who are equally good too. You’re really one of the best.”

Can you see where this is going yet?

Push-pull is all about bringing her emotions up and down and then up again. For those who are familiar with hypnosis, this is similar to the “fractionation ” process where the subject is hypnotized into a trance and then brought back out again in order to ‘deepen’ the experience in subsequent trances.

Swinggcat further outlines in the book the other push-pull techniques (Revealing & Concealing, Good Cop Bad Cop, Guilty Conscience). There are ample examples given, even though I thought he could do better with a basic primer on the techniques (with explanations on inner game and other basic aspects of pickup).

I would still recommend this book to the enthusiastic beginner, although those who will benefit most from the book would definitely be those who have chalked up some experience in the field of seduction.

And Swinggcat’s book, Real World Seduction deserves as much acclaim (if not more) than David DeAngelo’s somewhat overrated Double Your Dating , there’s no doubt.

This “push-pull” seduction tactic out of Real World Seduction is easily worth the price of admission itself. 4.5 stars out of a maximum five.